Episode 8
Men of Purpose: Rediscovering Masculinity Through The Forge
In this episode of 'Small Town Big God', Mikel Collins introduces Tom Calton, the founder of The Forge – a ministry aimed at discipling men and promoting biblical masculinity in Rutherford County, North Carolina. The episode covers the origin and growth of The Forge, starting from small group gatherings to significant ministry events. Key discussions include cultural changes, the fatherless epidemic, pornography, and economic challenges. The segment emphasizes the importance of men engaging in masculine environments and the vital role of father figures. Personal anecdotes highlight the deep spiritual impact on men's lives through transformative experiences at Forge events. The narrative includes the story of a women's retreat that inspired The Forge’s creation and underscores the importance of community, maintaining traditional masculine skills, and the intergenerational transfer of wisdom. Listeners are invited to join Forge meetings and to their annual Christmas Tree Bonfire event.
00:00 Introduction to Small Town Big God
00:56 The Birth of The Forge Ministry
02:00 Impact of Wild at Heart
04:31 Joining Forces with New Wilderness Adventures
07:12 The Power of Masculine Fellowship
10:04 The Need for Masculine Environments
18:58 The First Forge Event
21:31 Finding the Right Pace
25:40 Crafting and Forging: The Art of Damascus Steel
27:06 Intentional Shaping: Becoming Who We're Meant to Be
27:47 The Importance of Intergenerational Community
29:43 The Epidemic of Loneliness Among Men
31:05 The Impact of Pornography on Masculinity
33:15 The Decline of Masculine Skills and Its Consequences
42:27 The Forge: Reviving Biblical Masculinity
44:14 Join The Forge: Community and Events
45:11 Conclusion and Call to Action
Transcript
Welcome to Small Town Big God.
Speaker:My name is Michael Collins, and today you're gonna hear a
Speaker:story showing God is at work in Rutherford County, North Carolina.
Speaker:This episode is about a ministry called the Father.
Speaker:Forge, which is working to create spaces for men to be discipled
Speaker:and grow in biblical masculinity.
Speaker:Tom Kalton, the founder of this ministry, is going to share the story of how the
Speaker:Forge came to be and why it's so important for everyone that we don't lose touch
Speaker:with what it means to be a godly man.
Speaker:We talk about biblical masculinity, obviously.
Speaker:But also changes in culture, the fatherless epidemic, pornography's
Speaker:effect on men, the impact that the collapse of the textile mills has
Speaker:had on our community, and a lot more.
Speaker:So without further ado, here's Tom.
Speaker:been in this area for a majority of my life having lived in other
Speaker:places, I would say I'm very thankful to live in this part of the world.
Speaker:what is the Forge?
Speaker:The Forge is a ministry for men, by men.
Speaker:one of our taglines that we have continued to pick up and, and
Speaker:use is, that we, we create spaces that are unapologetically godly.
Speaker:Unapologetically masculine for men to be discipled and
Speaker:about 2015, is when the forge culminated into the beginnings of what it is today.
Speaker:really got to go back into about the year 2000 maybe perhaps a little before
Speaker:I was a part of some groups that were beginning to get together as men.
Speaker:My brother invited me to small groups that were getting together
Speaker:around the themes of restored masculinity, biblical masculinity.
Speaker:The beginning of the Forge, like the beginning of most ministries,
Speaker:is just a handful of people coming together to talk about Jesus.
Speaker:But when it comes to biblical masculinity, and conversations about what it means
Speaker:to be a godly man, there is one book, outside of the Bible, that most men
Speaker:would point to as the beginning of their journey to become a more godly man.
Speaker:if this conversation.
Speaker:with 200 other men like me around the world.
Speaker:180 of those guys would be pointing to the book wild at heart as some sort
Speaker:of impetus, a beginning of something.
Speaker:And I would say that it's true in this case that really that book changed the
Speaker:life of a friend of mine, Mark Folk.
Speaker:He, said I've got to do this and began a ministry to men were recovering about
Speaker:masculinity with this essential message that, Eldredge himself says, I feel
Speaker:like I found the treasure hidden in the field about, recovering masculinity.
Speaker:Wild at Heart was a breakthrough book for many and it influenced
Speaker:that friend very significantly.
Speaker:And he began creating small groups or, you know, joining with the
Speaker:Holy Spirit to create small groups.
Speaker:And, uh, I was pulled into one of those.
Speaker:So that would have been my introduction to this message, if you will.
Speaker:would have
Speaker:that would have been 2000.
Speaker:2000
Speaker:right.
Speaker:2001.
Speaker:following that, that, that ministry grew significantly in the Shelby area.
Speaker:And I attended some bonfires that were, original circles in this area.
Speaker:The bonfires were like, oh, I see the need being met.
Speaker:I see, the messages and themes that were being brought out were in a lot
Speaker:of ways, very new to me, very fresh and just delivering truths that I had not
Speaker:grasped, even though, you know, have been.
Speaker:Undergraduate religious education studies, pastoral studies and
Speaker:masters and all that stuff.
Speaker:I'd been exposed to so much of that, but yet it's still was not what I
Speaker:experienced and around those bonfires around those those Weekends that we
Speaker:were doing they were called the the hero boot camp and I was really taken aback
Speaker:by the weightiness of what was being delivered and the impact it was making on
Speaker:others I went there saw it and liked it.
Speaker:And here's the funny thing.
Speaker:I came home and said, I want to do this, you know, and we kind
Speaker:of do something like this here.
Speaker:I was in the process of really trying to start that and it's interesting
Speaker:how the Holy Spirit led me to understand, it's not your job to
Speaker:start this, it's your job to help.
Speaker:And I remember that moment, Michael, of being like, a really breakthrough
Speaker:moment for me that I'm like, Oh.
Speaker:But my job, my role has been redefined and it was taking the low seat at the table.
Speaker:It was coming in and saying, I do not need to reinvent the wheel here.
Speaker:I need to go to the people who are doing this well.
Speaker:So, straightway after that, the next bonfire that was happening that
Speaker:was, put together by Greg Sailors, through New Wilderness Adventures,
Speaker:in Shelby, and I, I, I go to that, and I remember coming to Greg and
Speaker:saying, what do I need to do to help?
Speaker:That was a pivotal moment, and I think, because it was so
Speaker:Important
Speaker:for me to come in and say even though I have some experience in student ministry
Speaker:and so on and I see the value of what you're doing and I see the value read
Speaker:the book And the book Has Wrecked me in so many ways I need to show up.
Speaker:I know something needs to happen.
Speaker:But the answer wasn't like, you go start your own thing.
Speaker:The answer was, you put yourself under someone else.
Speaker:Who has, stepped up into this role.
Speaker:And it was that way for a while.
Speaker:Quite some time I came into alignment with what they were doing and was getting
Speaker:people to events we started doing more at the lodge on the river and You know, I
Speaker:understood and saw myself as a role there is that my job is to help what God is
Speaker:doing through these men and this ministry
Speaker:At the times that I reflect on that, I begin to, to understand more clearly.
Speaker:I think that that is, that was an essential step
Speaker:I don't know if you can relate to what Tom is talking about here, but I sure can.
Speaker:It can be extremely difficult to pump the brakes and take a backseat when you
Speaker:have the drive to just go out and start something that you're excited about.
Speaker:But I've never heard anybody say, Man, I wish I hadn't spent so much time
Speaker:learning about this before I got started.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Tom made the right call.
Speaker:by looking for ways to help, instead of jumping right into his own ministry.
Speaker:Not only because he was learning about how a men's ministry like this should work,
Speaker:but also because he was being ministered to in a way that he never expected.
Speaker:my brother would drive his military deuce and a half down there.
Speaker:And, we haul guys around on the property and cross places that you
Speaker:wouldn't think you could cross in a vehicle and, you know, go up and
Speaker:down steep hills and stuff like that.
Speaker:And just everybody having a blast, you know, and there's fishing and
Speaker:then there's, we would do archery.
Speaker:We would do.
Speaker:Shooting clinics, skeet shooting, fun stuff like that.
Speaker:But then, of course, in the course of the day, uh, you're getting
Speaker:deeper into the message of godly masculinity and what impact that has.
Speaker:And you know, these, these were small groups.
Speaker:I mean, there's, you're talking about, I say small, I mean, there's
Speaker:sometimes 25 guys Sometimes 10 guys there, but that didn't matter so much.
Speaker:It was like, We're going after the heart of what God wants for these
Speaker:men, and we're going to take whatever we can get, and it was wonderful.
Speaker:We saw, baptisms, and, heart transformations, um, of these men.
Speaker:, their lives being reset and reoriented to, you know, God's plan.
Speaker:Intent for them and the message reaching deeper and deeper
Speaker:layers down into their soul.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:I think of that scripture in the end of Isaiah 55, where it says, my word
Speaker:is like, rain and snow that fall and water the earth, but it does not
Speaker:return heavenward after, but that it does the job that I sent it to do.
Speaker:I felt those moments were
Speaker:Like water coming into my soul in places I never knew needed
Speaker:watering, never knew were
Speaker:dry.
Speaker:it was having an effect on me and it was going down deep in me and I could
Speaker:see it going down deep in others.
Speaker:And so that.
Speaker:You know, in a lot of ways, Michael was going to room for pause for
Speaker:me to say, what is this, you know, this is, this is a message that
Speaker:I'm a little on the unfamiliar side with, you know, even read the book.
Speaker:yet
Speaker:this was going deeper and I'm seeing it worked out in practical ways.
Speaker:seeing men's lives change, men's lives be redirected.
Speaker:And of course it's not a magic bullet any more than planting a church in a community
Speaker:as a magic bullet for that community.
Speaker:But for those that have ears and will listen.
Speaker:The change was evident.
Speaker:The impact was evident.
Speaker:The influence was significant.
Speaker:It drew me in.
Speaker:because of the effect And the watering of souls in ways we didn't
Speaker:realize that we'd be watering.
Speaker:Have you ever gone to take a sip of water and then realized after you
Speaker:take that first sip, that you were a lot thirstier than you first thought?
Speaker:And that seems to be what Tom has discovered in these bonfire
Speaker:nights that he was helping with.
Speaker:But the question on my mind, both with the actual drink of water
Speaker:and this ministry is how can we be so dried out and not realize it?
Speaker:Well, Tom puts it like this.
Speaker:I was reminded of an interview I listened to on, Dr.
Speaker:Dobson's Focus on the Family years ago.
Speaker:And he was interviewing a physician that was talking about the
Speaker:struggles of like modernity, right?
Speaker:How modernity has influenced the health of modern people.
Speaker:Americans, you know, for instance.
Speaker:And this physician was mentioning that when he was younger, he, would
Speaker:talk to his patients and find out, you know, what kind of, what kind of
Speaker:things they use to supplement their health and, various people would say,
Speaker:yeah, I take such such supplements, you know, multivitamins and so on.
Speaker:And he would respond with, that's a waste of money.
Speaker:you're wasting money on multivitamins because you get
Speaker:that from food when you eat well, then you get that stuff in there.
Speaker:So just eat, vegetables and you're going to be fine.
Speaker:And then he's later, he came to the revelation that.
Speaker:The food that he grew up with was not the food that he was,
Speaker:addressing in his modern career.
Speaker:things had changed significantly in the food chain and, that, you know, we've
Speaker:got now things are growing very fast and they're growing for appeal, like, you
Speaker:know, the look of it instead of what's really inside food's grown fast and it
Speaker:doesn't really, it doesn't have nutrients in it cause it hasn't had the time to be
Speaker:able to develop the nutrients and so on.
Speaker:So he began to realize, ah, I missed that.
Speaker:I've completely missed it.
Speaker:And he did a one 80 and started telling people, no, you need supplements.
Speaker:I encourage you to get supplements.
Speaker:well take that and then lay that scenario that I just described about
Speaker:supplements and nutrients and food.
Speaker:Lay that over the top of masculinity, lay that over the top of our culture today.
Speaker:take the average life of the average man, And roll back a hundred years.
Speaker:think 1924, how many times would the majority of your day be around other men?
Speaker:talking to the average guy, now there's definitely exceptions today, but.
Speaker:Think about the average cultural difference then versus now.
Speaker:And in today's world, there's a lot of, co ed mixed environment.
Speaker:Back then you would have a lot of experience around other men.
Speaker:And then we're talking about, you know, pre industrial or
Speaker:entering into industrial age.
Speaker:And, you know, even going back even to.
Speaker:1800s and so on.
Speaker:You see, men would be fathered by their fathers.
Speaker:you know, I would have my son beside me doing my work.
Speaker:I would have other men around me working.
Speaker:We might be raising a barn.
Speaker:We might be fencing in some pasture.
Speaker:We might, but it would be very common that you would be doing a job
Speaker:that required physical strength and required you to be around other men.
Speaker:And you would also require you, you're handling, big equipment
Speaker:or doing things together.
Speaker:It required your strength, my strength to work together well, that's going to
Speaker:force us to get to know and, and encourage each other and be in close proximity.
Speaker:Okay, let's pause for just a moment and make sure that
Speaker:we are all on the same page.
Speaker:Because in our world today, talking about masculinity is going to
Speaker:immediately put a lot of people into a critical mindset where they're
Speaker:looking for things to disagree with.
Speaker:Tom is not saying that co ed work environments are a bad thing.
Speaker:He's saying that men need to regularly spend time in an
Speaker:environment that is purely masculine.
Speaker:That environment used to be their jobs.
Speaker:Since that is no longer the case, they need to supplement it with
Speaker:something else, like taking a vitamin.
Speaker:But now you might be asking, Well, why do men need to be in a masculine environment?
Speaker:And what does that even mean or look like?
Speaker:Well, Tom has an answer for you.
Speaker:One of the things that's been repeated in this message is that
Speaker:masculinity has to be bestowed.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I can't sit you down and crack open a book and, and you get it that way,
Speaker:or I can't necessarily sit down in a classroom environment and, you know,
Speaker:someone teach me , what masculinity is.
Speaker:Yes, you can get a lot.
Speaker:There's, there, I'm not, I'm not discounting those atmospheres
Speaker:or those settings or whatever, but really masculinity is
Speaker:bestowed from one man to another.
Speaker:I can remember clearly, and it brings tears to my eyes today,
Speaker:the first
Speaker:time I remembered my dad referring to me as a man.
Speaker:my brother and I were working in an area where we had purchased some
Speaker:steel and we were, um, putting this steel together and packaging it,
Speaker:to be shipped or moved or whatever.
Speaker:And, uh, my dad had to be somewhere else and he was telling my brother
Speaker:and I, as he was leaving, he said, now you men be careful.
Speaker:Now that was just a happenstance kind of comment.
Speaker:But that was the first time I remembered my dad referring to me
Speaker:as a man, and it has stuck with me.
Speaker:It hit me.
Speaker:I never Lost that memory of my dad, just happenstance as he was walking
Speaker:away, referring to me in company of another man as a man, Michael,
Speaker:there was something in that, that, that I received the Accreditation,
Speaker:from my father, He just assumed it in the conversation.
Speaker:there's a chain.
Speaker:That has to happen that, you know, an older man to younger
Speaker:man, but it's not always that way.
Speaker:Obviously a younger man can bestow masculinity to an older man,
Speaker:but
Speaker:there are so many ways and spaces in a lot of that.
Speaker:A lot of that has to be with your hands on something doing some
Speaker:shared mission or a lot of that has to be around a small circle.
Speaker:of
Speaker:men
Speaker:who are pursuing godly understanding of what masculinity, the godly
Speaker:understanding of what God meant when
Speaker:he
Speaker:meant
Speaker:man.
Speaker:And, you know, as they wrestle through that together.
Speaker:As the,
Speaker:you know, the scripture talks about iron sharpens iron and That's
Speaker:the way one man sharpens another.
Speaker:We're dependent
Speaker:upon that, you know, relationship You know, we joke around about, if
Speaker:you drive a Prius and, drink a frou frou coffee drink from Hope House,
Speaker:you're going to have to give up
Speaker:your man
Speaker:card or something which I've
Speaker:done both by the way, but it's a full confession.
Speaker:you
Speaker:We talk about the man card, but it's interesting how, like, that's
Speaker:kind of fallen to the place of something we might refer to.
Speaker:In lieu of masculinity, in lieu of true biblical masculinity, masculinity
Speaker:was bestowed upon me by my father, who I really saw as a true man.
Speaker:So that has been significantly lost in our culture.
Speaker:That is the atmosphere in which we're moving.
Speaker:That's the water in which we're swimming.
Speaker:And why it's so hard to grasp that is, uh, there's a Chinese proverb if you
Speaker:want to know what water is, don't ask the
Speaker:fish.
Speaker:It's really hard to have an accurate perspective on something if you
Speaker:are completely surrounded by it.
Speaker:Because you cannot look at the entire thing at once, right?
Speaker:For the majority of human history, in nearly every culture that has existed,
Speaker:there has been some sort of coming of age or becoming a man ceremony or
Speaker:ritual, some official marker of manhood.
Speaker:Now that still exists in a lot of places today, but here in America
Speaker:it seems to be pretty common.
Speaker:Becoming increasingly muddled.
Speaker:We have small milestones, like getting your license, turning 18, turning 21.
Speaker:But as time goes on, it seems that adolescence is expanding, and the
Speaker:finish line, or the point at which a boy crosses over into manhood,
Speaker:is becoming increasingly fuzzy.
Speaker:A big part of this is the fact that we have a fatherless epidemic in our country.
Speaker:One in four kids are growing up without a father in their home.
Speaker:And this lack of fathers means there are millions of boys looking for
Speaker:someone to tell them that they are a man and show them what that means.
Speaker:The Forge is working to bring men together who are seeking a better
Speaker:understanding of biblical masculinity.
Speaker:But at this point in our story,
Speaker:What we know as the Forge does not yet exist.
Speaker:Tom spent ten years helping out with bonfires and events being put
Speaker:on by New Wilderness Adventures before he ever started working
Speaker:on what would become the Forge.
Speaker:And the first Forge event actually came out of a women's retreat that was
Speaker:being held at Tom's family's property.
Speaker:We had put together a women's retreat.
Speaker:We called it the beautiful heart retreat and it was really.
Speaker:Can't say that in any other way, it came from the Holy Spirit.
Speaker:I knew we were supposed to do a women's retreat at the lodge.
Speaker:we got some of these, you know, heavy hitters together.
Speaker:Barry Strickland and his wife Gail.
Speaker:also invited, my wife and my sister.
Speaker:And so it was kind of, it was neat, Michael, that we, we invited,
Speaker:Several women had come down.
Speaker:I think there was like, 15 or 20 that had come for the weekend.
Speaker:And, our job was to, to clear the path for these women to encounter this message.
Speaker:You know, about, similar message to recovering godly, biblical masculinity.
Speaker:it also leads us to the question, what is biblical godly femininity?
Speaker:, we put together this retreat and my, it was so wonderful.
Speaker:There was so much revelation and goodness that came out of it.
Speaker:But one of the surprising, unexpected, movements from that
Speaker:moment was We're supposed to do
Speaker:this.
Speaker:Greg sailors and I got, you know, we, we knew that it was kind of a moment that
Speaker:happened that like, this is, this is something that's supposed to happen here.
Speaker:And at the women's retreat, it was just going so well and God did so many really
Speaker:neat things It was like the nut was
Speaker:cracked
Speaker:open,
Speaker:you know, it was like, Oh, now something new has happened.
Speaker:And I love it because it wasn't our pursuit, you know, it wasn't like, Oh
Speaker:God, we need you to tell us to do this.
Speaker:Or, you know, we really want to do this and want you, to kind of rubber stamp it.
Speaker:No, it was as we, we, the whole women's retreat, the beautiful heart retreat that
Speaker:we went on was astonishing and wonderful.
Speaker:God showed up in such power.
Speaker:And yet.
Speaker:There, he speaks to us about beginnings, I remember we were having a conversation
Speaker:with Neil Rogers, one of our co founders and like, what would it look
Speaker:like to do, you know, a small group or event he said, let's try it, let's
Speaker:see what happens, that was the clear bell ringing, okay, yeah, Let's do it.
Speaker:we did.
Speaker:thank God for small beginnings.
Speaker:I'm reminded is it Zechariah that says, do not despise the day of small beginnings?
Speaker:And
Speaker:it was small beginning
Speaker:Thank God for small beginnings, and like with any new ministry finding its footing,
Speaker:it took a little while for the Forge to find the right men, the men that they were
Speaker:looking to minister to, and it took even longer for them to figure out how to pace
Speaker:themselves correctly to avoid burning out.
Speaker:Some guys showed up at that event that we put on.
Speaker:I remember thinking that.
Speaker:Yeah, this is probably not
Speaker:for them.
Speaker:And I never saw him again.
Speaker:You know, they came and kind of checked into it and they were more
Speaker:straight laced, uh, you know, rather established, men that were, , a bit
Speaker:more old school religion kind of thing.
Speaker:And they just, you know, and they have their space, and I know a lot
Speaker:of good comes out of their ministry.
Speaker:And, but yeah.
Speaker:It was like, I, I expected that they would be there and kind of
Speaker:check this out and sniff it and like, Hmm, probably not for me.
Speaker:And that's kind of how that worked.
Speaker:But the majority of that, you know, so minor theme, but the major thing
Speaker:was that, um, that many, many guys were like, yeah, I want to do this.
Speaker:Let's do this again.
Speaker:we were like a bunch of 10 year olds with a big box of firecrackers.
Speaker:messy and fun and loud and crazy.
Speaker:we, we started off by doing a bonfire every year.
Speaker:And, you know, we were doing things like, kind of bacon cook off stuff where, you
Speaker:know, cook your favorite bacon meal or then we would, you know, we would have
Speaker:like sometimes shooting clinics and we'd like, well, just a wide variety of
Speaker:things, you know, find your way around with compasses and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker:We kept on, trying to do an event with some kind of theme
Speaker:and had some kind of draw.
Speaker:And, we would always, you know, try to have some really
Speaker:good food, and we really did.
Speaker:We hit that mark very often, but, man
Speaker:food,
Speaker:you know, specifically.
Speaker:but then, after a while, we began to realize that, That we were just
Speaker:burning ourselves out and one of our friends who is one of our allies to
Speaker:the south and upstate South Carolina new formations is the name of their
Speaker:ministry and Tim McNamara was the Mentor to me in that place that came to me to
Speaker:said, you know, you guys are gonna burn yourself out You're working too hard
Speaker:is that?
Speaker:The, line out of the Zorro movie with, Antonio, Antonio
Speaker:Banderas and, Anthony Hopkins.
Speaker:And, you know, he, the, the young, young guy.
Speaker:Future Zorro gets up and grabs a sword and he's gonna go kill this
Speaker:guy that's outside the cantina.
Speaker:And the old Zorro, you know, steps in his way and prevents him from
Speaker:attacking,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:just go ahead and, disarms him has him on the sword point within ten seconds.
Speaker:the young Zorro is like, what did you stop me for?
Speaker:I wanted to kill that man.
Speaker:he killed my brother.
Speaker:the old Zorro says you would have fought bravely.
Speaker:And
Speaker:died
Speaker:quickly.
Speaker:my friend came to us and said, Hey, uh, you're, you're, fighting bravely, but
Speaker:you're going to die quickly because, we were rushing with, a big vision
Speaker:and desire to do a lot of good stuff.
Speaker:But thankfully the Holy Spirit used that moment to redirect us to say, you
Speaker:know, you need to work on relationship.
Speaker:You need to move this to, small groups getting down into men's lives and you're,
Speaker:you're, you have weekly influence and you're having conversations and you're
Speaker:meeting consistently and we settled into shifting into that as our primary, modus
Speaker:operandi as far as, you know, moving around, what does the forge look like when
Speaker:it's
Speaker:deployed
Speaker:is this when you
Speaker:started calling it the forge?
Speaker:Where did the
Speaker:name, from?
Speaker:Yeah, well, we had a good friend that, this is not Billy Salyers at the time.
Speaker:This is rolling back into the, more like, 2015 era that, we had a good
Speaker:friend who was building knives, handcrafting knives, he was a bladesmith
Speaker:in Damascus, and we had a forge.
Speaker:on the properties, we had a forge, we're like, oh, you know what we need
Speaker:to do is that one of these, we need to begin to kind of have some groups
Speaker:that come around this and, and, and so, and it of course works with just
Speaker:the sense of, you know, iron sharpening iron and it works with the sense of,
Speaker:you know, forge
Speaker:is
Speaker:hot.
Speaker:And it's laborious, and there's a lot of intentionality in crafting, and you
Speaker:know, especially, I mean, that's, that's just, I'm thinking just about the blade
Speaker:itself, but, you know, if you go over to the Yellow Rose Forge and you watch
Speaker:Billy Salyers hammered this stuff out.
Speaker:I mean, there's a lot of work just getting the steel to the place where
Speaker:they can make something out of it.
Speaker:Especially if you're talking Damascus, they even, I think they're
Speaker:experimenting with stainless steel Damascus, which has a whole nother
Speaker:world of idiosyncrasies to it.
Speaker:So there's a lot of, Crafting that goes into that, you know, stuff that comes
Speaker:out of the forge and it's not easy work but it's beautiful So, you know all
Speaker:of that just kind of fed into that's
Speaker:a
Speaker:really
Speaker:good
Speaker:name
Speaker:for you know What we want because we want to be men who are forged
Speaker:Forged into what we're meant to be.
Speaker:We come a little bit blank in some ways, you know, like there, there's a shape.
Speaker:And, and if you, I mean, I would, I would highly suggest anyone who's
Speaker:listening, jump in, to do a class with Billy at the Yellow Rose Forge,
Speaker:he'll hand you a flat chunk of steel.
Speaker:And by the time you're done it's a knife.
Speaker:It has been made into something that's useful.
Speaker:It's durable.
Speaker:It, you know, you can use it in so many different ways and it's got
Speaker:your name on it and it's got your intentional, hand craftedness in,
Speaker:it.
Speaker:with the idea around intentional shaping, I see that as God the father,
Speaker:fathering us as his beloved sons.
Speaker:And it's not all, it's often not easy, and it's often painful,
Speaker:and it's often a lot of work.
Speaker:But, when he's done with us, we're his.
Speaker:Right, and we have his marks on us, and when he's done with us, as he
Speaker:works with us, we become more user friendly, more powerful, sharper.
Speaker:tempered for the work, you know, as he works and, and he uses other men.
Speaker:To do that in our lives so much, you
Speaker:know, I want to riff for a second on just the fact that, um, around the
Speaker:fires of the forge, we've got guys in their teens, twenties, up to seventies.
Speaker:And that is something that I really don't think that we get there is
Speaker:a class of nutrient right there.
Speaker:That we have been missing in a lot of ways that if you don't intentionally,
Speaker:if I don't intentionally churn in
Speaker:time,
Speaker:big word, time and listening
Speaker:with
Speaker:men who are older than me and younger than me, then I'm going to be missing
Speaker:something significant in my life.
Speaker:There is just something about, you know, even watching a boy play sometimes.
Speaker:I can be like, I want to
Speaker:be
Speaker:back
Speaker:like that,
Speaker:you know, I want to, and I just, you know, I saw a sign in the
Speaker:children's facility a couple of days ago and it said, don't forget to
Speaker:play.
Speaker:Amen.
Speaker:Don't
Speaker:forget to play.
Speaker:as men, we need to be those kind of guys that we don't forget to play.
Speaker:And we teach our kids family, other men people around us.
Speaker:It's okay
Speaker:to
Speaker:play.
Speaker:being around
Speaker:that young man.
Speaker:And in his world and seeing how he interacts and, and you, you pour in
Speaker:all you can, you know, but receive what, what God, our heavenly father is
Speaker:telling us, our loving beloved Abba, our daddy is training us right there
Speaker:and watching that little guy just have a blast, digging a hole in the
Speaker:sand
Speaker:or, you know, splash around on the water or whatever.
Speaker:That's glorious.
Speaker:it's really good to engage that,
Speaker:The Forge is not for everyone, but it is creating spaces and communities
Speaker:for men to pursue godly masculinity.
Speaker:And community is especially important in today's age.
Speaker:there's an epidemic of men being lonely.
Speaker:studies show, I think I read that it was like, It's like eight years,
Speaker:like you lose eight years of your life, meaning that you die seven or
Speaker:eight years early if you don't have a
Speaker:good
Speaker:community.
Speaker:And it is exceptionally present with men.
Speaker:so, you know, in this, obviously it's not a conversation just about
Speaker:live the longest life that you can.
Speaker:but it is, it does show, I think it does point to the fact that
Speaker:if we don't have, Actively, place ourselves in atmospheres as men
Speaker:where we are in masculine community.
Speaker:It will never happen.
Speaker:I couldn't find the exact study that Tom was referencing, but I did find a study
Speaker:that said people who reported living in social isolation had a 26 32 percent
Speaker:increased likelihood of mortality.
Speaker:So community is so essential, that if we try and go without it, we
Speaker:will literally shorten our lifespan.
Speaker:But Christians in particular have a whole other set of reasons to be in community.
Speaker:We're told in the Bible to be in community with other believers, because we need
Speaker:to be there to encourage each other, to push each other, and to hold each other
Speaker:accountable when we start to mess up.
Speaker:One example of this that's very prevalent in the lives of men ever since the
Speaker:creation of the internet is pornography.
Speaker:Pornography.
Speaker:Pornography
Speaker:has probably been one of the most influential factors in that.
Speaker:I mean,
Speaker:honestly, if I don't think That I need a woman in my life to satisfy
Speaker:the things that God has put into me.
Speaker:Then now I don't need a woman.
Speaker:Now I don't need to change.
Speaker:Now I don't need to grow.
Speaker:Now I don't need to become the kind of person who can marry the kind of
Speaker:person that I would like to marry.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:inadvertently or in ways that we don't expect, pornography
Speaker:has taken men out of community.
Speaker:There's also the embarrassment factor, like, you know, the, the enemy,
Speaker:condemns us for, sinful thoughts and actions and whatever, and then so like,
Speaker:I'm just going to not go there.
Speaker:I'm just not going to expose myself to an atmosphere where I'm going to
Speaker:get convicted, or be around other people who will call me up out of that.
Speaker:It's easier, right?
Speaker:It's almost like pornography is the fast food of marriage and relationship.
Speaker:I know that's kind of a hot button or a buzzword in a way.
Speaker:But look at the, just zoom out.
Speaker:Look at its effect.
Speaker:Zoom out and look at what it's doing to the person.
Speaker:It is creating an atmosphere where a man or a person.
Speaker:is disengaging from reality, disengaging from relationship, disengaging from
Speaker:bringing their strength, disengaging from learning what it means to interact with
Speaker:someone in a positive, encouraging, way.
Speaker:marriage is
Speaker:hard.
Speaker:It's not easy.
Speaker:As wonderful as it is, as glorious as it is, you know, it's just, it's not easy.
Speaker:It requires so much more
Speaker:of
Speaker:you
Speaker:to step up into marriage, right?
Speaker:So it, it also requires so much more of you to prepare for marriage,
Speaker:to become the kind of person that can be the, the kind of man that
Speaker:can bring his best in marriage,
Speaker:There are so many reasons that a ministry like the Forge is a blessing to have
Speaker:around that we can't cover everything and keep this episode under an hour.
Speaker:But one of the other big things that Tom and I discussed is something
Speaker:that Tom seems to think of as a sin of omission or a disease of absence.
Speaker:I was just listening to a podcast by Eldridge Hall.
Speaker:He pointed to I think studies showed, and you know, don't quote me on this,
Speaker:but like 92 percent of our lives in today's world are lived indoors.
Speaker:It is
Speaker:just
Speaker:gut wrenchingly deplorable.
Speaker:I mean, that is, that is ridiculous that we in our modernity have
Speaker:chosen to castrate ourselves By staying inside that much, you
Speaker:know, we were not meant for that.
Speaker:masculinity has been
Speaker:phased out the invitation to go outside and, you know, get up in that tree and,
Speaker:you know, play skin and cats in the trees or, you know, go fishing or, climb
Speaker:that mountain or, you know, things, things that just the boy's heart wants
Speaker:to
Speaker:do.
Speaker:That
Speaker:has been replaced.
Speaker:Well, instead of climbing that mountain, why don't you play a game that includes
Speaker:you getting to the top of the mountain?
Speaker:And that's the goal, right?
Speaker:You know, and it's on the screen easy in your air conditioned room.
Speaker:And well, you know, a lot of that, quite honestly, is It goes down to
Speaker:laziness, you know, the laziness of the way that we raise our children,
Speaker:laziness of our own laziness.
Speaker:I mean, you know, if you ask me on any given day, would you rather, you
Speaker:know, go hike up Mount Kizuma or sit in my chair and just, you know, uh,
Speaker:have a nice cool drink and just kick back a little bit and, you know, relax?
Speaker:which one of those is the easiest thing to do?
Speaker:Which one of them requires, you know, taking up your day?
Speaker:And which one of them requires effort and the
Speaker:risk of
Speaker:failure, right?
Speaker:You know, all of this, you know, it's a very big difference.
Speaker:But I think we have taken the easy route over and over and over again.
Speaker:And what that's done is that has removed a lot of nutrients.
Speaker:that our souls need, our masculine souls
Speaker:need.
Speaker:We just don't handle things with our hands nearly as much anymore.
Speaker:But, you know, we don't live in a tactile world.
Speaker:I'm all about
Speaker:air conditioning,
Speaker:man.
Speaker:I mean, you know, I absolutely appreciate it.
Speaker:Um, I'm all about.
Speaker:You know, things that work.
Speaker:I'm all about, you know, apps that I can turn on and get me somewhere.
Speaker:I don't have to look at a stinking map anymore.
Speaker:I can use my app to find out where to get, you know.
Speaker:I don't even have to get out of my chair and drive down to Burger King to eat a
Speaker:meal that's probably not good for me.
Speaker:Um, I can have it door dashed
Speaker:over
Speaker:to
Speaker:me,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:And I can keep binging on Netflix while that's going on.
Speaker:How wonderful, right?
Speaker:Um, Except for the fact that, you know,
Speaker:I've
Speaker:taken myself out of a situation where I need to be around other people.
Speaker:There's an insidious effect that the enemy, I think, multiplies
Speaker:or, um, you know, fertilizes the fact that we, we will convenience
Speaker:ourself out of a real journey towards what it means to be a
Speaker:godly man if we, if we just keep.
Speaker:Taking that route,
Speaker:truly the way that a lot of things have gotten easier in our world today,
Speaker:it means that we depend less on God.
Speaker:It means that we wind up depending less on developing our own.
Speaker:Abilities, our own character, our own, can do list.
Speaker:You know, I, I hang out with a lot of guys that can do a lot
Speaker:of
Speaker:stuff.
Speaker:And it's very impressive to watch men who know what they're
Speaker:doing in all kinds of situations.
Speaker:I was telling my son yesterday, your grandfather, He could do
Speaker:a whole lot more than I can do.
Speaker:He could build a house.
Speaker:preach a sermon.
Speaker:rebuild an engine.
Speaker:grow green beans.
Speaker:He was really good at grading like on a, motor grader, one of my mentors
Speaker:refers to that as a generalist, a man that can do everything.
Speaker:that's my dad.
Speaker:And honestly, that's my eldest brother, too.
Speaker:Um, and I'm in awe of that.
Speaker:I was telling my son, almost 16, I kind of feel bad.
Speaker:That I've not been able to give you everything my father could do.
Speaker:Um, because you know, maybe I wasn't the kid that wanted
Speaker:to
Speaker:pick
Speaker:it
Speaker:up
Speaker:as much.
Speaker:Maybe I wasn't the kid that allowed myself to be challenged in
Speaker:those areas and welcomed into it.
Speaker:so yeah, I mean, there's, I feel there's been diminishment and one of.
Speaker:You know, even in our own area, you think about how this used to be very much a
Speaker:rural farming community and, uh, not, you know, throwing rocks at anybody.
Speaker:But when the, the textile mills moved in and, you know, men began
Speaker:to leave the fields and leave the farms and go into the textile mills
Speaker:after a few generations, they didn't have anything to hand to their sons
Speaker:except come work in the mill because they had forgotten how to farm.
Speaker:They had forgotten how to fix the tractor.
Speaker:They didn't need to.
Speaker:They got the mill to go
Speaker:to.
Speaker:Alright?
Speaker:Well, what's happened to this area now that the mills have left?
Speaker:this is one of the areas where drugs are the worst out of the whole state.
Speaker:And
Speaker:I've been to those places, Michael.
Speaker:I've been, I've driven down into those dark holes that
Speaker:used to be the mill villages.
Speaker:I was a hospice chaplain for two and a half years here at Rutherford hospice.
Speaker:Before I worked for hospice, I had no clue.
Speaker:I had no idea, but then as a hospice chaplain, I had to go to those places.
Speaker:You know, no problem going there.
Speaker:I'm happy to go there and serve my community, but I had
Speaker:no
Speaker:idea.
Speaker:I was clueless.
Speaker:As to the destitution and the brokenness and the poverty, and we're not just
Speaker:talking about poverty of what's in your wallet, I'm talking about
Speaker:poverty of being able to do anything.
Speaker:I mean, I just saw it everywhere.
Speaker:I mean, it was like you had seen people who had been gutted.
Speaker:when the mills left, they had nothing to fall back on.
Speaker:And it was just, gut wrenching to see the broken state of my community
Speaker:what had been lost could almost boil most of that down to masculinity.
Speaker:What the men could not do is what wound up putting him in those states of, poverty.
Speaker:It was a spirit of poverty, and slavery, over these places, but, you know, I, I
Speaker:do think, and, you know, this is, you know, my main, the major theme of, you
Speaker:know, what I would like to deliver is not about, you know, the deplorable state that
Speaker:we're in, but that is, you know, A necessary piece to
Speaker:understand where we are.
Speaker:the brokenness that, that I saw there.
Speaker:And, you know, we have continued to see that play out.
Speaker:You know, if a father doesn't have anything to hand to his son, I mean,
Speaker:we all want to give our children the best we can give to them.
Speaker:And if all I've got is, you know, come work in the mill, mill with
Speaker:me, that I'm gonna offer that to my son because I want my son to have,
Speaker:you know, some good chance at life.
Speaker:maybe
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. But what we, what we don't realize that we have lost has been, you know, so it's been
Speaker:one of the essential pieces of this story.
Speaker:we don't even know, like fish that can't describe the water.
Speaker:We don't even know what we've lost
Speaker:This is a tough topic to discuss, and I know talking about the mills
Speaker:might be a sore spot for a lot of us here in Small Town Friendly.
Speaker:I mean, we still have a giant empty mill sitting in the middle of Forest City.
Speaker:But it helps to illustrate exactly what Tom and the men
Speaker:at the forge are working for.
Speaker:A big part of masculinity is taking on responsibility for your family and your
Speaker:community, but in an age of convenience, we are letting a lot of the skills that
Speaker:used to be passed from generation to generation slip through our fingers.
Speaker:And Tom said three things here that I want to replay so that you can hear them again.
Speaker:What the men could not do is what wound up putting him in those states of, poverty.
Speaker:when the mills left, they had nothing to fall back on.
Speaker:we will convenience
Speaker:ourself out of a real journey towards what it means to be a
Speaker:godly man if we, if we just keep.
Speaker:Taking that route,
Speaker:If this resonates with you, if you're a man who's looking to gain a better
Speaker:understanding of biblical masculinity, if you're looking for a community of
Speaker:like minded men to help you, to hold you accountable and lift you up and
Speaker:teach each other, then I encourage you to get involved with The Forge.
Speaker:Let's not allow biblical masculinity to slip away from our culture.
Speaker:And it's not about driving a big truck, or being able to kill a deer, or anything
Speaker:that we might think of masculine that we learned from a movie that we've seen.
Speaker:found in Jesus Christ.
Speaker:He's the one that we're trying to emulate when we're trying to be more of
Speaker:a godly man, and he has made a way for us all to be considered children of God.
Speaker:James one 12 says To all who did believe in him, he gave the
Speaker:right to become children of God.
Speaker:So even if you are part of that one in four that grew up without
Speaker:a father, you can still have a relationship with your Heavenly Father
Speaker:and you can learn what biblical.
Speaker:Now, before we wrap this episode up, there's one more thing
Speaker:that we need to hear from Tom.
Speaker:If there was , one message you could speak to every person in Rutherford County,
Speaker:what
Speaker:would that
Speaker:be?
Speaker:as
Speaker:the guy
Speaker:with the
Speaker:Forge hat
Speaker:on, I
Speaker:guess, I would, um, I encourage an invitation to the spaces at the Forge.
Speaker:You can find us online, theforgefire.
Speaker:com, and check it out.
Speaker:is this for you?
Speaker:Is this where God is calling you to be.
Speaker:I mean, we, we meet Monday mornings.
Speaker:There's a group that meets at open road coffee house, 7 a.
Speaker:m.
Speaker:in Columbus, North Carolina.
Speaker:Then there's, you know, a group that meets right here at hope house
Speaker:coffee, right across from element church, on Broadway for city.
Speaker:That's a 6 45 a.
Speaker:m.
Speaker:In the back.
Speaker:And, That's, some have
Speaker:named that
Speaker:the
Speaker:too
Speaker:early group.
Speaker:And then, then there's another one at the flight deck.
Speaker:You can find that on Google.
Speaker:just look up the flight deck on Google Maps and that will be,
Speaker:um, There's a, there's a Bible study group that goes on there.
Speaker:And then Thursday evenings, same location at the flight deck.
Speaker:At 6.
Speaker:30 PM.
Speaker:And there's other groups.
Speaker:There's groups that meet in upstate South Carolina.
Speaker:Rock Hill, Charlotte.
Speaker:and Tennessee.
Speaker:There's, there's several that are around us and, and we try to be, allies.
Speaker:Cover each other's back and love on each other and, and, lift each
Speaker:other up and be there for each other
Speaker:Thank you for listening to Small Town Big God.
Speaker:If you want to hear the full hour and 45 minute interview that I did
Speaker:with Tom, I will be uploading that the day after this episode goes live.
Speaker:So, unless you're listening to this the day that it came out, you
Speaker:can just scroll down to the next episode and it should be there.
Speaker:And if you're interested in joining in on the events of the Forge, don't hesitate.
Speaker:I've been to several of them and they're always fantastic.
Speaker:If you're looking for a place to jump in, I highly recommend
Speaker:the Christmas Tree Bonfire.
Speaker:Every year, the week after New Year's, the guys at the Forge drive around and
Speaker:collect people's old Christmas trees.
Speaker:Then they pile them up in the middle of a field and have a massive bonfire.
Speaker:It's awesome.
Speaker:Anyway, thank you for listening.
Speaker:And if you've not already, please leave a review in whatever app you're
Speaker:using to listen to this podcast.
Speaker:It's a huge encouragement to me to be able to see that you
Speaker:guys are enjoying the show.
Speaker:And if you have suggestions or want to get in contact with me, just send a
Speaker:message to the Small Town Big God Facebook page, and I'll respond as soon as I can.
Speaker:Thanks for listening, and thanks for being a part of Small Town Friendly.
